Curse

glountz · Dec 09, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Assacasters aren't dead. Deadly Paradox is quite dead, but just replace it by Iron Palm to have three KDs with entangling asp and Signet of Judgment.
They are, I think, just fine now.
By the time you cast all your bar, most things will be recharged. Si I find the assacaster pretty balanced. He's got three easy-to-get KDs, nice damage, but good monks can react, and rangers can interrupt their chain if the assa don't think to introduce randomness into his cast chain. With castigation signet, and due to the fact you don't have this energy eating Dparadox, and are casting slower, you never run out of energy.
Good job Anet?

Lorde · Dec 10, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Assacasters aren't dead. Deadly Paradox is quite dead, but just replace it by Iron Palm to have three KDs with entangling asp and Signet of Judgment.
They are, I think, just fine now.
By the time you cast all your bar, most things will be recharged. Si I find the assacaster pretty balanced. He's got three easy-to-get KDs, nice damage, but good monks can react, and rangers can interrupt their chain if the assa don't think to introduce randomness into his cast chain. With castigation signet, and due to the fact you don't have this energy eating Dparadox, and are casting slower, you never run out of energy.
Good job Anet?

I started to use a asscasting KD build with my Sin and while it don't have the damage of the old DP build, it can annoy a monk to no end. In a sense, nerfing Paradox made asscasting stronger.

ensoriki · Dec 10, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Pfft, Does it matter if its stronger if its not as fast?

Deadly paradox let the bar activate and recharge faster, Improving the builds DPS.

Ya you can make the build stronger, wont be as good as the paradox one.

Paradox also still works so wtf is with this crazyness?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyat Hawke

I don't really know if making it elite would fix the problem though, the first assacasters didn't use any elite at all... I kinda like Ensokiris idea for once though, but it should still disable attacks. I don't want SP sins back again...

Funny how most people say that Shadow Prison should disable stances, or End your current stance (Thus would end paradox and SP would not be affected)

glountz · Dec 10, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Paradox also still works so wtf is with this crazyness?

You obviously didn't try the new paradox on an assacaster.
Paradox don't work anymore. Actually, only necros with SReaping and Signet of LOst SOuls (and even Reaper's mark for some of them) can afford to maintain DP.
On an assacaster it will provide you 2 or 3 chains, max, then you will have big energy trouble and DP will be a dead weight on your bar. 15 energy every 15 secs means 3 pips of regeneration less. DP isn't worth taking unless you invest a lot in e-management, meaning you loose some KDs.
Having tried with and without it on a common SoJ sin, in fact, it's better without.
Thus, I was just saying that assacasters were quite viable in 4v4 format without DP.

ensoriki · Dec 10, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

You obviously didn't try the new paradox on an assacaster.
Paradox don't work anymore. Actually, only necros with SReaping and Signet of LOst SOuls (and even Reaper's mark for some of them) can afford to maintain DP.
On an assacaster it will provide you 2 or 3 chains, max, then you will have big energy trouble and DP will be a dead weight on your bar. 15 energy every 15 secs means 3 pips of regeneration less. DP isn't worth taking unless you invest a lot in e-management, meaning you loose some KDs.
Having tried with and without it on a common SoJ sin, in fact, it's better without.
Thus, I was just saying that assacasters were quite viable in 4v4 format without DP.

2-3 chains still classifies as working you know >.>
A/Me
Power Drain = Works the same with 1 less KD aaah....but you still have an interrupt!
Blinding surge sin was played before SoJ sins, and did not have the KD.
A/ME power drain sin's arent a horrible thing either >.>

glountz · Dec 10, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

2-3 chains still classifies as working you know >.>
A/Me
Power Drain = Works the same with 1 less KD aaah....but you still have an interrupt!
Blinding surge sin was played before SoJ sins, and did not have the KD.
A/ME power drain sin's arent a horrible thing either >.>

Are you serious? Why am I feeling you didn't even test DP post nerf to say bullshit like A/ME? Assacasters main strenght comes from their mostly unconditionnal KD. A/Me? Blah.If they were just about damage, an arcane echo DP dancing daggers would roll everything. Power drain is only caster hate, can miss, doesn't sit the foe on his back, forbidding melee to chase your monk, forbidding softies to kite. A three-KD chain is really devastating for an opponent if if has also a frenzied warrior on his back.
Also, bringing DP kills a slot, PDrain is only 25 recharge, you have to bring a rez, and remember that you need 4 slots for the at-least-one-KD Augury-Dancing-Entangling-Toxic combo.
For the blinding surge sins, it was weak. Signet of Shadows just sucks.
Kds do not only allow you to kill they actually also quite improve your team killing power and survivability in 4v4.
So no, DParadox is quite dead and that's for the better, cause assacasters can live without.

makosi · Dec 10, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

The reason Augury is overpowered is because Deep Wound is so powerful. I'm not suggesting that Deep Wound is overpowered but it was once the case that it used to take effort to produce the Deep Wound. Typically, pre-NF, it was Eviscerate that provided the DW for a spike which requires 8 hits of adrenalin. It was somewhat more predictable. Alternatively there is Phantom Pain + Shatter Delusions. It's a nice, effective combo but it costs 15 energy, and twice as long to manoeuvre to pull it off.

Secondly, knock-downs used to require effort and some sort of brain-cell usage. Hammer KDs need adrenalin, Gale and Shock cause exhaustion, Bull's Strike had to strike a moving foe and so on. The power creep made knock-downs easier and more spammable. I'm aware that Signet of Judgement hasn't really changed over time and I think it's perfectly balanced alone but it synergizes too well with the Asscaster build.

You might think that Entangling Asp is a conditional knockodown but there's a spectrum of ease when it comes to conditions. Pressing Dancing Daggers is not hard, it can't be blocked, and evading it does not change it's 'lead' effect.

Knock-downs are powerful. They are an interrupt, and virtual shutdown for a second or more with the exception of stances. Again, I'm not suggesting KD isoverpowered and I think it's an integral part of the game mechanincs but I just wish it was a challenge to implement once again.

Just my 2 pence.

ensoriki · Dec 10, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Are you serious? Why am I feeling you didn't even test DP post nerf to say bullshit like A/ME? Assacasters main strenght comes from their mostly unconditionnal KD. A/Me? Blah.If they were just about damage, an arcane echo DP dancing daggers would roll everything. Power drain is only caster hate, can miss, doesn't sit the foe on his back, forbidding melee to chase your monk, forbidding softies to kite. A three-KD chain is really devastating for an opponent if if has also a frenzied warrior on his back.
Also, bringing DP kills a slot, PDrain is only 25 recharge, you have to bring a rez, and remember that you need 4 slots for the at-least-one-KD Augury-Dancing-Entangling-Toxic combo.
For the blinding surge sins, it was weak. Signet of Shadows just sucks.
Kds do not only allow you to kill they actually also quite improve your team killing power and survivability in 4v4.
So no, DParadox is quite dead and that's for the better, cause assacasters can live without.

I played a sin caster back when DP was 50% and again when it was 33%
DP lets you become almost uninterruptable, can spam do to lack of recharge etc.

Without it, sure you can take its slot for power.
But you loose the Speed of your combo.
If your going to say speed is unimportant

Shadow prison + Tiger stance

Riotgear · Dec 11, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

The reason Augury is overpowered is because Deep Wound is so powerful.

The reason Augury is overpowered is because it essentially has no drawbacks aside from the half-range and inconvenient teleport, ironic since the teleport was supposed to be the point. It's cheap, it casts fast, it's unconditional, it has no aftercast, you can cast it before you spike, and it's a purple arrow instead of a brown arrow so it's hard to remove.

Basically, it's the perfect skill for degenerate caster spike trash.

Quote:

Secondly, knock-downs used to require effort and some sort of brain-cell usage.

Asp is expensive and on a lengthy recharge. Part of the problem is that it's invariably followed by a fast-cast mini-obflame while you're still knocked on your ass.

glountz · Dec 11, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

I played a sin caster back when DP was 50% and again when it was 33%
DP lets you become almost uninterruptable, can spam do to lack of recharge etc.

Without it, sure you can take its slot for power.
But you loose the Speed of your combo.
If your going to say speed is unimportant

Shadow prison + Tiger stance

I'm saying that nerfing DP from 5 to 15 energy hurted it more than the 50% to 33%.
If tiger stance costed 15, then it would become unplayable.
15 energy on a 15 secs recharge is simply a too heavy burden, especially on a n assacaster that lacks energy management.
You can always take it, play 3 ass/mo TA lamer team. If you spike correctly (i.e synchronous, 1 target per assa), you will stil create havoc. BUT if your spike is stopped, especially by taking anti-KD measures like an off-monk Aura of Stability, or having with you a very good interrupt ranger that will be able to counter the sin spiking him, you're pretty much screwed as you won't be able to fire more than 2 DP-powered spikes. Is it sufficient? Maybe. We don't agree on this point.
On augury:
I really think that is not Augury which is overpowered, it's the deep wound. Still , I would agree with an energy cost increase.

ensoriki · Dec 11, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Thats the point, the fact that with Deadly paradox you could sweep teams was a problem.
Saying Augurys not OP, the DW is, is silly.
The Deepwound IS AUGURY. The skill doesnt do anything besides warp you if they are below 50% hp which is retarded biscuits.

Skye Marin · Dec 11, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I think the priority is now Augury of Death.

My fix:

Augury of Death
5/1/12
"For 5..35 seconds, the next time you cause a critical hit when target foe is below 50% health, that foe suffers from a deep wound for 5..20 seconds. This spell has half the normal range."

This makes it impossible to use on caster spikes, and more so on any other spike other than an Assassin chain. The teleport is pretty inconvenient in most cases. This makes it a cheap, useful deep wound that's most useful on assassins. Other attacking classes would either need use a critical hit skill, or be pretty lucky on their attack chain.

Riotgear · Dec 12, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Augury needs to be overhauled completely. Period. It was clearly designed to put an Assassin in somebody's face when they're dying to finish them off.... except if you're the one making them dead, it interrupts your own attack chain, and if you're not, it's too unpredictable to matter.

It's a terrible design for a skill. It only has a DW because Izzy was randomly adding DWs to Assassin skills the same way he randomly added Exhaustion to Ritualist skills.

Honestly, I could care less if the DW is removed and the skill is buried. It's just a trash design for a skill in every way. Trash does not need to be viable, it needs to be replaced or sent to the landfill. If Augury was some sort of "maintained hex" it could provide an interesting way to ambush somebody.... but it's not.